Until next time - with Dr. Kaj Johnson
Hi, folks, and welcome to what is the season finale of Earth on the Rocks. As always, I'm your host, Shelby Rader. This is gonna be a special episode. We have a few surprises in store. And starting us off with our guest is doctor Kaj Johnson.
Shelby:Kaj, thanks for joining the show.
Kaj:Thanks, Shelby True.
Shelby:And Kaj has also brought along a sidekick for today's show, and you may at least know her name from the end of each episode. Joining us also today is Cari Metz. Cari, thanks for joining.
Cari:Thanks for having me.
Shelby:So, Kaj, we're gonna get to know you today over the course of the episode for better or worse. And to help us in that journey, as we get to know you over drinks, what would be your drink of choice for today?
Kaj:Coffee, black.
Shelby:That's it. No cream or
Kaj:morning.
Shelby:Just one?
Kaj:Several cups of coffee. Black. That's the way I roll in the morning.
Shelby:Yeah. Yeah. Some extra coffee grounds for for flavor. I've I've seen your office.
Kaj:I sometimes will chew on a coffee ground. Yeah. Yeah. That can be delicious.
Shelby:A little burst of
Kaj:But that's not normal. Yeah. But I do enjoy oolong tea.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:High mountain green tea from Taiwan. Became quite infatuated with that.
Shelby:While you're in Taiwan or also when you're It
Kaj:started when I was in Taiwan and I've been to the to the high mountains and seen it grown. And so sometimes I'll enjoy a cup of oolong tea. And I'm still going here.
Shelby:Okay. Keep it coming.
Kaj:Craft beers. K. Especially ales, pale ales. Yeah. But can I introduce a drink of non choice?
Shelby:Absolutely.
Kaj:So the most disgusting thing I ever had is this drink called Ayran. Have you ever heard of Ayran?
Shelby:No. Probably for good reason.
Kaj:Turkish drink. It's my drink of non choice.
Shelby:Can you elaborate on
Kaj:Yeah. Well, so I was young but but I was doing fieldwork in Turkey, studying an earthquake when I was, like, 20 years old. And and you go out in the field and you work, it's hot, it's summer, it's it's humid. Old ladies from the the nearby villages would walk out with these trays of tall glasses of ayran. It's like this white yogurt drink.
Kaj:It's yogurt in salt and water. And they'd bring it to us multiple times a day. And I I found it hard to drink and so I would just kinda almost have to gag it down because it would be very rude to turn it down.
Shelby:Right. And multiple times a day, that sounds pretty rough.
Kaj:And they kept bringing it to you. They were so nice. So anyway, every once in while, see it in like a Turkish restaurant. You can order ayran. Mhmm.
Kaj:So
Shelby:So don't do it.
Kaj:That's my drink. Yeah. I think I might like it now. Yogurt, salt. It actually could be very refreshing.
Shelby:Yeah.
Kaj:But at the time, I found it very unpleasant. Yeah. So that's my drink of non choice.
Shelby:Any other drinks you wanna throw in there? You seem very well hydrated from the sounds of it.
Kaj:That's pretty it.
Shelby:Pretty much it. Okay. So now that we've gone through your litany of drink choices, if someone were to ask you beyond an avid consumer of beverages how you would classify yourself, what would your response be?
Kaj:As a scientist.
Shelby:As a scientist. Yes.
Kaj:Right. Depends on who you're talking to. Right? Yeah. You know what I mean?
Kaj:Like if I'm on an airplane and someone asks me what I do, it's always a struggle. I used to say I'm a geologist, but I stopped doing that because immediately if you say you're a geologist, a lot of people will say, well, they think you dig for something. Yeah. You're digging. You're a digger.
Kaj:They ask me about fossils and rocks and I don't really do that. So then I just started saying I'm a geophysicist and people don't know how to what to do with that.
Shelby:No. No. Especially with you.
Kaj:Yeah. Geophysics. And I don't even know what a geophysicist is exactly. So I just finally tell people I study earthquakes. I would say that's what I've settled on.
Kaj:I study earthquakes.
Shelby:And where where are you studying these? I mean, you've mentioned a few places.
Kaj:Yeah. So that's the nice thing about studying earthquakes and being a geophysicist. You can study them anywhere they're recorded, anywhere there's instrumentation. So yeah. So I studied all over the all over the globe, especially Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand, Western US.
Shelby:And so you mentioned recording stations. Our department has a recording station.
Kaj:That's right.
Shelby:Can you tell listeners about what that means? What do you mean by recording station? How does that work?
Kaj:We have a seismometer.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:It's down in the basement of the building. It was actually as part of the construction of the building. They built a pillar that goes down into the bedrock and it's separated from the rest of the building to isolate the pillar. And there's a seismometer that sits on that and records as part of the global seismic network.
Shelby:And and why have a seismometer in Indiana?
Kaj:Oh, because we have them all over the globe because you can record earthquakes. You know, earthquakes happens in you know, we had the the one in Myanmar a few days ago. It was recorded on our instruments, recorded globally. So we record seismic waves from earthquakes all around the globe no matter where they happen all the time. We do have earthquakes occasionally nearby as well, but we're often just recording earthquakes at long distance.
Kaj:Yeah.
Shelby:Yeah. Even since I've been here, there have been a few sort of nearby earthquakes that the seismometer has picked up that we wouldn't necessarily feel that we can see
Kaj:Yeah.
Shelby:Evidence for.
Kaj:Yeah. The one I really remember was, this is a long time ago, but I was a young assistant professor. My students were working all night long on a project that was due the next day for my structural geology class. And we had an earthquake early in the morning in, Eastern Illinois that shook Bloomington. It woke me up, rattled the windows, and my students were already up.
Kaj:They were in the Geology Building at the time because they were working on their homework. That was the the first earthquake I experienced here in Indiana. Oh, no. Here in Indiana. I experienced it in California.
Kaj:Yeah. The first Every once in a while.
Shelby:So you've you've
Kaj:experienced Well, that's the only one in Indiana I've felt. Okay. You know? So
Shelby:But you you mentioned you felt some in California.
Kaj:Couple.
Shelby:Yeah. Spent some time in California.
Kaj:That's right.
Shelby:So can you tell us a little bit about your your journey to Bloomington? How you ended up here?
Kaj:I can. Sure. This was like two turning points in my life. So one was high school calculus. Isn't that weird?
Shelby:That is a little
Kaj:That's a little weird. But high school calculus was very inspiring to me. I was a you know, I liked math. I was kind of a nerdy kid. Liked math.
Kaj:Was kind of good at it. But then high school calculus, the light bulb came on, the switch came on. I was like, oh, this is where this is what math I can see, like, the power of it. Right? I can do stuff with this.
Kaj:Yeah. So that that excited me and so I decided to go into math. I was a math major at Purdue, but then I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And so I wanted to apply math. I was interested in physics and math and thought about being an engineer, but I never really knew what I wanted to do.
Kaj:I kind of just stumbled into into the earth science. But I also grew up a professor's kid.
Shelby:Professor of? Geology. Okay.
Kaj:My dad was a professor of geology. So I never wanted to do what he did. I wasn't really all that interested in what he did. But then I sort of, you know, at some point sort of just actually, the weird thing is I took a class. I took a couple of geology classes at Purdue.
Kaj:I was trying to figure out what I was gonna do next. And so I took a couple of geology classes, one from my dad. And it just sort of clicked. That's what I was gonna do.
Shelby:Can I ask what was it like taking a college course from your dad? Was that a was that a good experience or was that
Kaj:It was odd. I think it was odd for everybody. A little uncomfortable, a little unusual. But it was it was okay. It was a funny time.
Kaj:I didn't know anything that was going on in the class, so it was okay. Yeah. So I came into this class. I was this former math major and I was in this junior level class and we were looking at, like, thin sections, doing field geology. It was sedimentary geology and tectonics class.
Kaj:I didn't know anything that was going on. I didn't know the words people were using. I was completely lost. So I think for that reason, it was kind of okay. Yeah.
Kaj:I was just this I was the professor's kid but I had no idea what was going on. I was just trying to and so but I learned so much. Quickly caught on to stuff and it was just sort of like learning by immersion and it was kind of a it was fun. Yeah. So that's kind of how I got into it.
Kaj:Yeah. It kind of stumbled into it. It was kind of an accident.
Shelby:So you changed majors, I'm assuming?
Kaj:I did. Yeah. And then eventually, settled on on in grad school, kind of earthquake science was was what I was gonna do was what I ended up going into. So yeah.
Shelby:And where were you for grad school?
Kaj:I went to Stanford. Okay. Right? And that's where I got to feel a couple earthquakes. Was And I was already studying earthquakes, but
Shelby:Okay. That's why I
Kaj:Yeah. It wasn't my inspiration.
Shelby:Yeah. You were already drawn to the field.
Kaj:It was funny because I was never gonna be a geologist for sure. My dad was a geologist. I don't know. Didn't plan it. Just kinda
Shelby:Happened.
Kaj:It just happened.
Shelby:Meant to be
Kaj:Yeah.
Shelby:Some would say.
Kaj:That's right.
Shelby:And then what brought you to Bloomington?
Kaj:IU.
Shelby:That's all that needs to be said.
Kaj:That's that's all that needs to be said. Yeah. And I've been here ever since.
Shelby:Yeah. And where have been you mentioned a few places that you've been previously done or are currently doing field work. Are any of those sort of standouts for areas that you have really enjoyed going to maybe for the culture, for the food, not the drinks in some cases?
Kaj:Yeah. So I I go to Taiwan a lot over the years. I have a lot of colleagues there. I've done a lot of research in Taiwan. I really enjoy Taiwan.
Kaj:You already mentioned the tea, but also having a lot of colleagues and now former students, students of students, and so I think having a network of people there is a really great thing. And it's a fantastic place to study earthquakes because it's a very tectonically active spot in the world. So that's probably my favorite place to go. And also, I travel to Japan quite often. Again, Japan has a wonderful earthquake science network of scientists and instrumentation there and also a fun place to visit as well.
Shelby:And we've heard from lots of folks over the course of the season that do different forms of fieldwork. So as a geophysicist, as someone who studies earthquakes, what does fieldwork
Kaj:work look What field work?
Shelby:What are you doing when you go to these locations?
Kaj:Oh, I'm I'm well, okay. So I'm in a I'm involved in a project right now. There is some field work. So I actually just came back from the field season and but that's not this that's not central to what I do. I actually work with, you know, satellite data or seismic data that's already collected, part of, you know, networks of instrumentation.
Kaj:So I don't do a lot of field work for my research.
Shelby:So are these trips mostly for the networking with the other
Kaj:Collaborating, networking, getting projects up and running, working face to face with my colleagues and their students, giving talks, sometimes going to a conference. Yeah.
Shelby:And the the data that you're working with, you mentioned satellite data, what what sorts of data? What are you
Kaj:using this for? Right. Well, so when I study earthquakes, I'm actually not like, people might know about it heard the term seismologist, and we talked about the seismometer. I'm actually not a seismologist. I don't work with seismographs or seismometer data.
Kaj:The seismometer so that's the instrument that records accelerations or or or very small ground motions. So you'll see the graph with the wiggly line is recording very small vertical or horizontal motions.
Shelby:Like in old movies, it would be the barrel that's rolling.
Kaj:Exactly. Yes. Or in the First Floor of our geology building, have one of these on display. One of those old barrel drum instruments that records the wiggles. No, that's not what I do actually.
Kaj:So what I actually work with mostly is global positioning system data. So GPS, now we call it GNSS, global navigation satellite systems. And we use that kind of data to track very subtle, small motions of Earth's surface. Check it over time, you know, in places we have ten years, twenty years, thirty years of continuously courting positions. And it's it's the same technology that's in your car or phone, except it's post processed to be extremely extremely accurate to the point we can measure a spot on earth's surface over say a decade at you know at a millimeter per year level.
Kaj:We get very precise motions. And then we use that to study where there's potential for earthquakes.
Shelby:So it's a predictive tool, essentially.
Kaj:Kind of predictive. Prediction's a scary word in earthquake Yeah,
Shelby:I can imagine.
Kaj:We don't like to say we're predicting because we can't. But yeah, I like to say examining the potential for earthquakes in in various parts of the world.
Shelby:And you've been doing this for
Kaj:a few
Shelby:few decades now with with a whole host of of students.
Kaj:Yeah. Yeah.
Shelby:And so when they go on these trips with you to the field, are they also mostly there for networking? Or are they in the field some? Or what's that usually look like for your research group?
Kaj:Oh, right. Yeah. They're doing what I'm doing, is mostly networking and collaborating. Again, not collecting data so much.
Shelby:Since you've been here in Bloomington and even leading up to your time in Bloomington, there have been a couple of things that that I've become aware of about, you know, sort of your your life outside of the science that I wanted to to just pick your brain on.
Kaj:Oh, really? Okay.
Shelby:So at a former time, you were part of a show choir. Right?
Kaj:Oh, we're going into this now.
Shelby:We're going into this now.
Kaj:Okay. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Shelby:Yeah. So can you can you tell us a little bit about, like, what is a show choir? How'd you get involved in that?
Kaj:Well, so yes. I've I was quite a child performer, it turns out.
Shelby:I don't think much has changed. Maybe the venue, the performance is still there.
Kaj:Yeah. So I was my mom was always pushing me into to be honest, you know, when you're kid Yeah. To being on stage and doing stuff. It kind of terrified me, but I did it anyway. And it just then it became sort of who I was.
Kaj:So then, yeah, when I went to college at Purdue, I just I tried out for Purdue musical organizations. It's just that they have choirs and there was a show choir. But I was just trying out. I thought I was trying out for the the men's and women's chorus because I like to sing. I was like, yeah, I'll I'll do that.
Kaj:I'll try out. I show up the next day. They put me in the show choir. Was like, I don't do that.
Shelby:So what's I
Kaj:know how to dance and sing
Shelby:distinction between show choir and Right.
Kaj:So show choir is a smaller group of people and you it's choreographed singing and dancing. It's like, I don't I've never done that. Well, had been in a high school musical, so I guess I had done some of that, but never in a show choir. And here I am, show up and like, oh, I'm in a show choir now at Purdue. That's how it happened.
Kaj:Again, it's kinda like becoming a geophysicist. I didn't really plan it. It wasn't really headed that way.
Shelby:Just meant to be.
Kaj:It just happened.
Shelby:And how was the process of being in a show choir, especially since it wasn't what you were expecting?
Kaj:Oh, I ended up loving it. You know, it was a lot of fun and I, you know, I had to learn how to dance and sing at the same time. I feel
Shelby:like
Kaj:Is
Shelby:that still an ongoing learning experience? Or is you feel like you're you're pretty settled in the dancing and singing department?
Kaj:Yeah. You know, every once in a while, does come up around here. So yeah. Actually, Cari. Cari's here.
Kaj:Do you do you recall any dancing in any of our classes? Or
Cari:I do. Didn't you do like a dance when we were on the Red River Gorge trip?
Kaj:Does come up in front of everyone. Yeah. It's what you're handing at. Very memorable. So there is a dance off that happens every every every fall semester in on our field trip.
Kaj:That's right.
Shelby:So this is a class you teach that
Kaj:takes a good I teach. Yeah. Sometimes that the show choir in me comes out in my in my teaching. Yeah. Yeah.
Kaj:So so Carrie's been on this this is a class field trip. We go to the Red River Gorge area, which we should talk about. Happy about the course. Also has a course that goes to that area as well. But, yeah, we have this geology course.
Kaj:The first time we went on the trip, there's this one site. Take the students. We're going up to the arch, the Natural Bridge. And that is it Natural Bridge State Park in Kentucky? And there's there's a hiking trail, and we're we're going up the hiking trail doing our geology.
Kaj:And all of sudden, there's like amazingly there's this stage. Do you remember the stage?
Cari:I do.
Kaj:Yeah. Is it there? Nobody knows. But you're hiking up and there's this platform, you know, raised platform. It's like perfect size for a small little stage.
Kaj:I have no idea what it is. It's like they started to build something and then decided they scrapped it and they left the perfect venue and situation for a dance off. So at the time, Harrison Martin was teaching assistant. He had also been in a show choir. And so we had this little banter about all through class about so I said, Harrison, here it is.
Kaj:We're gonna have a dance off. And we did. I won. And we've done the dance off every year since. Do you remember and so you do remember the dance off.
Kaj:We did it the year. Yeah. Do you remember who won?
Cari:I just remember your your performance. Yeah. So I think you won.
Kaj:I think I did too.
Shelby:I've I've heard about these performances from many students.
Kaj:Yeah.
Shelby:Yeah. I think it was memorable, maybe traumatic, some would say, but but it stuck with them for sure. Yeah. And I might have mentioned this to you before. Uh-huh.
Shelby:There is actually a stage, not the one you're referring to, at Natural Bridge called Hoedown Island.
Kaj:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Shelby:That through different portions of the year, they have square dancing every Friday, and anybody can go At
Kaj:the same state park. Right? At the same state
Shelby:park. Yeah. The Natural Bridge
Kaj:I always thought, man, we need to coordinate this with a class.
Shelby:I know. I think normally our field trips are too late in the semester. They stop performing at Hoedown Island, like, sometime in early October, I think Yeah. Before it gets too cold. But, yeah, that's
Kaj:So since we're talking about dance offs, can I can I can I ask you a question? Don't actually know the origin of this, but at some point, you challenged me to a dance off, I believe.
Shelby:I did. I did.
Kaj:What was that? I don't even know the history of how this started. But for some reason, you think you're gonna beat me in a dance off someday.
Shelby:You know, I think get all started because you were sort of talking a big game about the field trips because we we do both go to the Red River Gorge area.
Kaj:This is this this sort
Shelby:of field trip competition. You'd mentioned the dance offs, and then I said, well, we should just do a dance off.
Kaj:Yeah. Something like that.
Shelby:As soon as I said that,
Kaj:all of
Shelby:a sudden, you you bent over and sort of grabbed your knee with this phantom pain
Kaj:That's not what happened.
Shelby:That I'd never heard of before. And now all of a sudden, your knee is too bad for a dance That
Kaj:is true. That is true.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:Right. I don't know why, some reason, you wanted to do a dance off. We could never quite arrange it. I don't
Shelby:know. Was a we couldn't quite arrange Well,
Kaj:but then I did injure my knee playing soccer. And then I got the diagnosis of having arthritic knees. It's a real thing.
Shelby:Is. Believe you.
Kaj:I believe you. So I couldn't possibly have been at my best for a dance off at that time.
Shelby:Which I will take as you
Kaj:But it was a diagnosis. I
Shelby:have a I take that as you at least saying you need to be at your best for this to even be remotely a competition. So I'll take that. Maybe eventually.
Kaj:Someday. Someday. It'll happen. Maybe we could do this on the podcast. Could be like a dance up.
Kaj:But it turns out there's no video?
Shelby:No. No video.
Kaj:There's no video. Now So Unfortunately. I figure that out, that that's not
Shelby:gonna work. You know, this is the season finale. So maybe we could make an exception Yeah. And do do like a separate standalone for promo. But we'll
Kaj:Let's come back to that. I have that.
Shelby:We'll see how your knee is doing. That arthritis is
Kaj:Not great.
Shelby:Acting up, I think. Yeah. That's what I figured. Cari, when you gone on these trips with different folks in the department, people like Kaj, as a student, what's been sort of a standout for you in interacting with some of the people that we've had on the podcast so far?
Cari:Well, the two field trips I've been on have both been with Kaj, actually. The first was Earth Processes, and that was with Doug Edmonds too, which they have, like, this wonderful banter between them, which made, like, class and the field trip really interesting. But the thing that has, like, stood out to me most is just seeing, like, all these concepts in real life. Like, you get to actualize them. Like, they're not just something in a textbook.
Cari:They're, like, these real tangible things. And they're just really fun, honestly. Like, it made me really love the department.
Shelby:Yeah. I think that's one of the best things about the field. You can talk about this stuff and then immediately go out and see it or get to go to really cool places outside of like the local geology to get to experience it.
Kaj:And you also went to the the Colorado Plateau trip to Utah.
Cari:Yeah. Was great.
Shelby:What can you tell us a little bit about that trip? What is that trip like? What do you all do?
Cari:Well, we flew out there after having a semester worth of presentations on the area and just general information. It was pretty, like, high concept because there was a lot of, like, grad students in that class, and I was just, I'm I'm still just a minor in earth and atmospheric sciences, so I was kind of out of place, didn't really know that much. But I feel like I grew so much through that, and I learned an incredible amount just from, like, the support system. And the thing I remember most about that field trip, I think, was the San Rafael Swell because you're walking through, I think, the Univa Mine Canyon.
Cari:As you walk forward, you go backwards in time and you just get to see, like, the stratigraphic column and it's just this beautiful you got through, a petrified forest at one point. But, yeah, that was the most memorable part. I, memorized the entire sequence of the formations.
Kaj:Yeah. That is a cool one. That's a San Rafael Swell. It's this place where the rocks got pushed up to nearly vertical and then it gets later on cut by these canyons. So you get to walk through millions of years of geology basically.
Shelby:Think for
Shelby:people who are hearing this and maybe are like this is their first excursion into geosciences, hearing you say you get to walk through millions of years is probably pretty weird. Like, that's a strange concept to think of. But I think that's one of the things that is so interesting about what we do is we would literally have evidence and records, in some cases for billions of years, oftentimes that you can just walk on the surface of Earth and see and experience. And so it's really cool that you all as students get to do that. And it obviously is so memorable to get to see this exposure in ways that you probably had never thought of before.
Shelby:Yeah. So I want to come back at some point to some other things related to sort of your excursion into show choir.
Kaj:This is coming back up.
Shelby:First, I have another question that has been on my mind for a long time and I've held off until the show to ask you about. I also heard rumor that at one point you were on a wrap around a bus in Bloomington. Can you
Kaj:Oh, interesting.
Shelby:Can you tell us a little bit about that? Was that was that as part of like an IU promo or was that your show choir roots coming through? You were advertising an upcoming performance.
Kaj:Of the above. Yeah. I was on a bus, bigger than life. Me, my daughter, my wife. No.
Kaj:It was a that was a promo for Stone Belt organization here in Bloomington. It's the local chapter for people with disabilities. They provide services and employment and opportunities for people with disabilities. Yeah. My daughter has Down syndrome.
Kaj:So they just took one look at my family and said, now there's a very there there's a family that needs to be on a bus. You know?
Shelby:So you've on a bus.
Kaj:Very photogenic people, I guess.
Shelby:You've now been on a podcast. Maybe you've been on a podcast before. I don't actually know, but at least you've on a podcast.
Kaj:Well, no. First podcast.
Shelby:You've been on the stage.
Kaj:I've been on stages. Yes.
Shelby:Many times. Yes. And sort of coming back to to your interest in things like music, you're also part of a band.
Kaj:Well, that's kind of a recent thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Shelby:Yeah. Can you can you tell us a little bit about?
Kaj:Yeah. Well, we have a department band.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:Yeah.
Shelby:How long has that been going on?
Kaj:Just a few years. I think three years. Yeah. We just kind of formed a department band. There's like, what, seven of us, I think, from the department or or closely associated with the department that get together and play every once in while.
Kaj:Then we sometimes occasionally play a little coffee and donuts. That's the department Friday coffee and donuts. Every once in while, we'll play a few songs for that. Yeah.
Shelby:Yeah. What's what's the band's name?
Kaj:Walther's Outlaws. Yeah.
Shelby:Okay. Can you tell our listeners where that that name came from? Because there's a a geologic
Kaj:Walther's Outlaws. Yes. So right. So Walther's law is one of these sedimentary geology principles that so it's a play on that. Walther's Law.
Kaj:I don't know. So when we were forming this band, somehow we were asking people for suggestions for band names, you know, so we we got the department chair David Polly. He he had a list of suggestions and one of them was like the Walthers Laws or something. And then it was like, I think Andrea Stevens Goddard said, oh, what about Walthers' Outlaws? That's it.
Kaj:Yeah. So it's a play on geologic term. Many people don't even know. I didn't even know what Walters' Law was. Learning on Walthers' Law.
Kaj:Maybe just before we became Walthers' Outlaws is when I learned about it. So yeah.
Shelby:And the sort of the makeup of the band changes from year to year
Kaj:a little bit. Right? Because we're we got students that come and go. Well, we've only been a band for a few years. We were sitting around lunch one day and I learned that Andrea plays the mandolin.
Shelby:Andrea who's been on the show earlier?
Kaj:She's been on the show. I think she was your first
Shelby:She was your first episode.
Kaj:So she plays the mandolin and I was like, oh, well, I kinda play guitar. And so we joked about, oh, we need a department band. And then Harrison Martin who we've already mentioned, the dance off Former first dance off victim.
Shelby:Yep. I mean,
Kaj:was playing banjo. He had a banjo in his office. I said, that's it. We now have a band. Three instruments.
Kaj:So we had a band probably for about a year that we never practiced or anything but we had a band. We just talked about playing a Yeah. Yeah. One day, we finally started practicing and then, I don't know, it just sort of caught up. Other people wanted to join, then we just grew.
Kaj:So we added students. We've added faculty. And now we just, you know, get together and play every once in while. It's fun.
Shelby:That is fun. Yeah. Yeah. And you all do sort of I wouldn't maybe special performances? Like, you all do a a welcome back show for the department.
Shelby:You mentioned the Friday coffee and doughnuts. It's it's a really nice community building.
Kaj:Opportunity It was really just a joke at first. Right? Oh, we need a we're a band that wasn't. And then yeah. But then it just, right, started to become something like every semester we do a little gig for coffee and donuts, it was kind of fun.
Kaj:Oh, actually, and then maybe the department picnic Yeah. Kind of expanded. I think people maybe are getting tired of us.
Shelby:No. I don't think so.
Kaj:Okay.
Shelby:I don't think so. I feel like you've got you've got some good fans in
Kaj:the department. Myself You are our fan. You're our number one fan. In fact, office, have hanging on your wall signed or maybe not even all signed set lists from
Shelby:your fan. I think I have every set list that you all have ever ever had from the show. Am You can do. The self admitted number one fan.
Kaj:That's right. Yep. I appreciate that.
Shelby:Walther's outlaw groupie at this point. I'm there for every show. Hype woman, I would argue. Yeah. I like to Right.
Kaj:Well, and and it's actually expanded your role into helping us promote the band. Yeah. And we got some planning to do this spring. Right? For the spring the upcoming spring Spring show.
Kaj:Gig.
Shelby:Yeah.
Kaj:Yeah. You're gonna you're you're playing a role in that.
Shelby:Yep. Yep. We'll hopefully have a good good show for folks.
Kaj:Yep.
Shelby:With all of this, so your work with, you know, your activities in the band, sort of your your background in music, how do you feel like those sort of of play together? Like, do you feel like there's there's any role of one in the other, or is it just something that sort of helps keep you well rounded and and sort of happy doing some of the research stuff?
Kaj:I think there are two different worlds I live in. You know, the thing about my work, sure, there's the research part, but there's there's the teaching, students. You know, we work with students every day. I've got great colleagues right there in the building. So it is kinda nice to mix a little bit of, you know, interests with research, you know, personal interests, a little bit of social time,
Shelby:mixed together.
Kaj:So I guess that's where it comes together.
Shelby:Even from what Cari mentioned, it sounds like like some of the performance side does sort of bleed into your your teaching and helps helps get people
Kaj:I guess.
Shelby:Excited about
Kaj:I don't know.
Shelby:Some of the stuff. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.
Shelby:That's what I've heard. Word on the street. So Kaj, if there are folks listening
Kaj:Mhmm.
Shelby:That have interest or or some intrigue about the field, do you have sort of words of wisdom? Or if you were to go back and tell your younger self that was convinced you were not going to be a geologist, something that would inspire them, you know, to show you that this is probably what you're going to end up doing, what would that look like?
Kaj:Oh, yeah. You know, I don't know. Other than like what what I kinda hinted to, a lot of these things are like a random walk. I didn't plan where I was gonna be now. And so I guess my words of wisdom are that's okay.
Kaj:I always tell students that, you know. So it's okay. You just, you know, find something you enjoy, do it. Yeah. You do need to worry about where it's taking you in your career, but, you know or or future employment, but work on something you enjoy to find something that's, you know, of interest to you.
Kaj:And that's kind of all I did was just sort of become interested in things and follow them. And I I didn't plan to be a earthquake scientist, you know. I didn't plan to have a, you know, that we were gonna have a little band in the department. It just sort of sort of was a random walk. So be open to things like that and, you know, just and it's okay.
Kaj:It's okay not to plan everything out and know exactly how how your career was gonna play out. It's okay. Don't know if those are words of wisdom, but that's that's that's that's the experience I had that I try to, you know, share with people.
Shelby:Yeah. And I hope if people have stuck with us for the whole season, first of all, kudos to you all. If you're a listener of all 16 episodes, reach out. Send me your address. You deserve a sticker, which we do have for the podcast.
Shelby:But I think people will recognize that a lot of folks that come into this field aren't necessarily planning it and there's so many opportunities under this umbrella of earth and atmospheric sciences to find different niches that are really really different from each other and apply earth and atmospheric sciences in ways that maybe you would never think about that bring in other sciences, other arts, you know, public communication, all sorts of components like that. So I think that there's a lot to be said about the flexibility within our field that that sometimes people can embrace and do some really interesting stuff with. Whether that be research or going on a field trip and having a dance off, both of those things can be true.
Kaj:Yep. Now, you're kind of a competitive person, aren't you?
Shelby:I'd say I'm, I mean, you challenge Most reason. Internally competitive. Like, I like to challenge myself. But, yeah, occasionally Our
Kaj:friendship is often there's there's there's always this little undertone of little competitiveness, isn't there? Don't you sense that a little bit? Yeah. I think and we've never had this dance off and we're not gonna do that here. But I think it's time for us to finally have a competition.
Shelby:Okay. Alright. Do you
Kaj:wanna do a little well, a friendly competition. This could actually be a new segment on your show. I don't know. I mean, I'm not here to plan your show for But would you like to try a little experimental segment for this podcast? Could become a thing but, you know, I don't know.
Kaj:It's not my call.
Shelby:For people that are listening, this is genuinely completely unexpected on my part. I have no idea what's
Kaj:about happening.
Shelby:No idea what's happening.
Kaj:Well, this is a little segment I like to call Rock the ASBOG. Okay. Do you know what the ASBOG is? The p people don't know what the ASBOG is. It's a professional geologist organization.
Kaj:Yep. And there's this ASBOG exam to become a professional geologist.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:And I've always wanted to rock the ASBOG and take the exam. I was always curious, you know, because I told you I kind of stumbled into this. I wasn't a geology major. I was a math major. I just always wondered how I would do on the the ASBOG geology exam.
Kaj:So I thought, well, let's see. Shelby, let's see how we do. You want to see how you and I would do on the ASBOG exam?
Shelby:Sure. Although if this goes south, we might have to cut this out. We don't need to advertise.
Kaj:That's the good thing about a podcast. This is all editable. This may not make the show. This Cari Yes. Came prepared because
Cari:I I did. I did.
Kaj:And so the ASBOG Professional Geology Exam, there's some practice questions that are provided with the ASBOG that I've not looked at. I just learned that they existed. I asked Cari to pick some out.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:Okay. It'll probably be obvious that I did not look at these questions.
Shelby:Okay.
Kaj:Because I probably will not know some answers. But I promise I have not seen it. Have you seen
Shelby:this I have not seen it.
Kaj:And how many questions do we have here?
Cari:I have three for each of you.
Kaj:Three for each. So are we gonna keep score? Alright. Let's see how this goes.
Cari:Okay. Shelby, first up. An esker is a, more or less linear ridge formed at the end of a glacial advance, b, streamlined glacial landform, c, conical hill composed predominantly of sand and gravel, or d, sinus ridge sub parallel to glacial flow composed predominantly of sand and gravel.
Kaj:That's a hard one.
Shelby:That is a
Kaj:hard one.
Cari:It's lot of words.
Shelby:We need David Lillien here.
Kaj:I think I know the answer, but let's let's see your question.
Shelby:Let's see. I'm going with d.
Cari:D? As in dog. Okay. You're correct.
Shelby:I'm sweating. There's sweat on my brow
Kaj:I think you were guessing. No. Okay. No, no. She knew.
Kaj:She knew.
Shelby:She was comfortable. Absolutely. That's why there was sweat on the brow.
Kaj:No. Do I get the next one?
Cari:Yeah. No one for you. We got one for you.
Kaj:Okay. It's pressure because it's it's zero to one right now.
Cari:Okay. Alright. Let's see. When water contacts pyrite at the earth's surface, the runoff is commonly a, acidic, b, basic, c, oxygenated, or d, nitrogen rich.
Shelby:I just wanna say, this feels a little unfair that this is the question you got after I got something related to glaciers, but
Kaj:Did you do that on purpose?
Shelby:You go ahead.
Kaj:Because I know nothing about
Shelby:Can we steal? If somebody gets an incorrect, can we steal
Kaj:I'm going to guess acidic. Okay. I've heard about acid, mine, drain off, and so I just wanted Wonderful. Okay.
Shelby:Alright. Well done.
Kaj:Well, okay. Boy, this is getting this is gonna be tight. This is be tight. We're one one one.
Cari:Looks like you're sweating a little bit.
Kaj:I am. I am.
Cari:Alright. Shelby, ready for your next question?
Shelby:No, but I'll take it.
Cari:Alright. We're gonna do it anyways. Biostratigraphic zones are employed to establish: A, continuity of formations B, age equivalents within sedimentary sequences C, absolute ages of successive formations or sedimentary provenance active during deposition.
Shelby:Oh, I feel like this could be tricky. There's a couple that I feel like could be valid. I'm going to go with B. You're correct. All right.
Kaj:Oh, jeez.
Shelby:Think my watch is giving me a heart rate notification right now too.
Kaj:I pressure's on me. Okay.
Cari:How are feeling?
Kaj:I'm nervous.
Cari:Nervous? Okay. Don't be. Don't be. Alright.
Cari:Which of the following anions is the least reactive, most persistent tracer of a geochemical contaminant plume?
Kaj:Okay. This is so unfair. You gave me all the geochemistry questions. You did this on purpose.
Cari:What? No. Okay. Alright. Is it a, c o three negative two, b, h c o three negative one, c, Cl negative one, or d, p o four negative three.
Kaj:Is this a real question?
Cari:Yes, this is a real question.
Kaj:People are supposed to know this?
Cari:You wanted to rock the ASBOG
Kaj:You wanted You know what? I don't even know. I'm going guess B.
Cari:It was CL negative one. Good try though. That's good. We can edit that out. Don't worry.
Kaj:No, don't edit it out. Okay. Okay. It's fine. It's fine.
Kaj:Well, this is now you could win this thing.
Shelby:I know. Could win it
Kaj:The penalty kicks shootout. You could win it right here, and we don't have to go to my question.
Shelby:I think we need to go to the question regardless. But
Kaj:we'll see
Shelby:how this goes.
Kaj:Alright. Okay. Let's see how this one goes.
Cari:Okay. Alright. Okay. Shelby, your third question is, what is the best radiometric dating technique to determine the age difference between two Miocene age volcanic ash deposits separated by 500 feet vertically? Okay.
Cari:Is it a, potassium argon, B, carbon carbon, C, uranium lead, or D, uranium thorium? Hold on. Need to give this some These
Shelby:are like hard. Gosh, shit. Are difficult.
Cari:And these are practice questions, I
Shelby:don't know that much about potassium argon. I think that it's mostly been replaced by the uranium lead or uranium thorium system. So now I'm trying to decide between C and D. I'm going to go with uranium lead.
Cari:The answer was potassium argon. Wait, no. You can tie. Can tie.
Kaj:Know. It's coming down to this last question that we could end up which would be, I don't know, poetic. Yeah. Would be. It would delay this whole publication.
Kaj:We'll have to do something
Cari:This is for the dance off.
Kaj:I've got to get this right. I hope this is like a structural geology question or something. Anyway, go ahead.
Cari:Alright, Kai. The rate of production from a subsurface reservoir is most directly related to a, porosity, b, permeability, c, compactness, or d, grain size?
Kaj:The rate of production from a subsurface reservoir. So this would be oil or water, doesn't really matter. Okay. Is most related to what were the options?
Cari:It was a, porosity, b, permeability, c, compactness, or d, grain size.
Kaj:Oh, and this is the rate of production?
Shelby:Yes. The
Kaj:rate That's most likely going to then be permeability because that's how easily the fluids can move through the medium. I'm going with that one. Correct. So you
Cari:guys tied.
Shelby:Two to two.
Kaj:Well, here we go.
Shelby:Another one of those things that was
Kaj:meant to I guess our little friendly collegial competition is on hold.
Shelby:I guess it is. Think that dance off is gonna have to
Kaj:We don't have a winner.
Shelby:That's our only option.
Kaj:Don't you think there's something quite fair and
Shelby:Yeah. That's how
Kaj:it was poetic about ending and a tie.
Shelby:Exactly.
Kaj:Okay. Well
Shelby:With that
Kaj:That was fun. Thank you, Cari.
Shelby:Thank you, Cari for asking.
Cari:Yeah. Good job, guys.
Shelby:I like the title. We might need some, like, theme music
Kaj:for A little theme music
Shelby:for that. We can make
Kaj:that happen. Well,
Shelby:I think with that, that brings us to our final segment of the show, which is our yes, please segment, where we each get a minute to talk passionately about something we're excited by in the moment. And because this is the season finale, not only are Kai and myself gonna do the yes, please, but Cari's also gonna join. And then Betsy, who has been manning the recording station for all of these episodes for most of the season is also gonna join, you all will get to hear a little bit from both of them. So, Cari, do you wanna go first? Yes, please.
Shelby:Okay. So I will time you. I'll give you a heads up when you have thirty, fifteen, and five seconds left.
Cari:Sounds great.
Shelby:And if you're ready, this is gonna be Cari Metz's Yes, Please.
Cari:Alright. Yes, Please rock climbing, which I think is very fitting for this podcast. But I started climbing indoors last September, and then I've gotten more into it, like, since January. Got my first, like, outdoor rock. I went to Breaks Interstate Park, which is, like, on the border of Kentucky and Virginia.
Cari:It's beautiful there. I don't know if y'all have heard of it, but it's pretty good for geology too. But there's just these beautiful, like, sandstone, like, exposed faces, and it's just a great exercise. Like, it's my favorite form of exercise because it doesn't really feel like you're exercising. You're kinda just, like, chatting on your time off and then, like, just trying to go as high as you can on this rock or this wall.
Cari:It's kinda silly. But first time I went outside, I was kind of, like, surprised. There's no, like, colored holds telling you where to go. You have to, like, grasp around on the wall and figure out where you're gonna go next. And then you're like, well, I could fall from here, but it's fine because you're in a harness.
Cari:But it's just, like, super fun, and I've developed a lot of friendships and learned a lot from it. So, yes, please. Rock climbing.
Shelby:That was literally right at one minute. That's good. Excellent job, timing Thank you. So you've gone to the gym here in Bloomington. Yes.
Shelby:I think that the gym here is such a cool place. Yes. Can you just say a little bit about what the the Bloomington gym is like?
Cari:Yeah. Yeah. So I go to Hoosier Heights, and it's actually like an old church. So if you there's two types of climbing. There's bouldering, and then there's ropes.
Cari:I started off bouldering, but then my friends were telling me that the cool people do ropes, which I I don't know. There's some bias. There's, like, this competition between the two sides. But the bouldering room is in this old church, and so there's these, like, huge ceilings and, like, these cool stained glass windows. And then the Ropes Room is just, like, this giant industrial building with kinda, like, no windows.
Cari:But it's super cool. Yeah. The room
Shelby:with the stained glass is that's what I think is just so neat. It's such a unique place to go rock climbing. So very cool. It's really neat. You'll have to eventually get down to the Red River Gorge and do some outdoor climbing there.
Shelby:That's what it's known for. I've never done it there. But I've been, like literally, I've been in other parts of the country and had a water bottle with a logo of a pizza place there. People will Yes. Yes.
Shelby:People will stop me and ask me, oh, do you climb at the red?
Cari:That's my next stop.
Shelby:Yeah. Nice.
Kaj:For
Shelby:sure. Alright. Betsy, you ready ready to go? Hey. Hey, Betsy.
Shelby:Thanks for joining us, and thank you. Big shout out for everything that you've done. Oh, gosh.
Betsy:Thank you for having me every time.
Shelby:Yeah. You've been the person behind the scenes that has made all of this happen, so we greatly appreciate it.
Betsy:Yeah, I'm actually never in front of the mic, really, so
Shelby:This is a first for this show
Betsy:for Yes, definitely.
Shelby:But this will be good. So, are you ready with a yes, please? Yeah. Okay. So, this is Betsy Leija's Yes Please segment.
Shelby:You can take it away.
Betsy:Yes Please to shameless reading. Honestly, I, at first, I would just read on my phone and just kind of like I don't know, I'd be on the bus reading on my phone. I have this app called Libby, and it's through the library, and I just I love reading, and it's actually kind of embarrassing at times what I'm reading, not because it's like weird stuff, it's just like, oh, why is she reading this narrative about a woman who decides that she's moving out to Reno and doesn't know what she's gonna do with her life, and then somehow falls in love with another woman, and it's just like, woah, what's going on? But I think, you know what? What I'm gonna start doing is just taking out my hardcover book and just sitting on the bus and reading.
Betsy:What I've started doing is reading the IDS newspaper on the bus. And I don't know, you kind of There's something about flipping open that big old newspaper and crossing your leg and just reading on the bus. So, yes please. Perfect.
Shelby:I think, look, people call some of these things guilty pleasures. I don't think they should be guilty pleasures. If you enjoy them, they're just pleasures. Right? Like reading should just be a pleasure.
Shelby:Binge watching trash reality TV shouldn't be a guilty pleasure. A lot of people enjoy it. Obviously, that's why it's so popular. I think embrace it. Embrace the reading.
Shelby:Read whatever you want. Obviously, it was written, so there's a market for it. Enough people are interested. You're not the only one. Take pride in it.
Betsy:Well, I'd say Jersey Shore is my favorite TV show at the moment. And it has been my favorite TV show for the past seven years. Jersey Shore
Shelby:is from my time. I remember when that was all the rage that came out. I watched it in real time. GTL.
Betsy:The themed parties are back and it's definitely Jersey Shore is on the list.
Shelby:That there are Jersey Shore parties around Bloomington nowadays?
Betsy:There are. And just know that there might be another one coming up soon.
Shelby:You know, they say everything comes back in style. This is making me feel a little old now that this is this is coming back in style. Alright. Kaj, I'm gonna go next, I think.
Kaj:Maybe Yeah. You can that's fine. You can go next. Yeah. I'll go last.
Shelby:Yeah. Since you're our our guest for the day. So this will be my sort of season finale. Yes, please. Yes, please.
Shelby:Let's give appreciation to local bands. We mentioned Walther's Outlaws. You all may not know them yet. If you're from Bloomington, you're about to know them. They're about to blow up.
Shelby:I've been saying that for the last few performances. They're starting to build outside of the department walls. They've been at Switchyard Park once. That's the first step. It won't be long till they're at the Bluebird, I would argue.
Shelby:That's the next stage. Then they're gonna take the Midwest by storm. Have you all talked about a touring plan? If not, I think that you should. I've already admitted that I'm probably your biggest fan.
Shelby:You know, honestly, maybe my mom is starting creep up there. She's seen a few videos of the shows. She enjoys the music. They're really, really great performers. It's always entertaining.
Shelby:Like we mentioned, it it brings a lot of collegiality to the department. So I think more of us need to get out and support them. You know? Eventually, maybe you'll release an album. We can plug it here, get your downloads up, maybe get you a little extra money to help support, you know, the the band as you all make it big.
Kaj:Wow. That was
Shelby:That was from the heart too. That was from the heart. That wasn't just because
Kaj:you're Yeah. You are a number one fan.
Shelby:I'm proud of it.
Kaj:Yeah.
Shelby:Yeah. And like I said, I'm gonna be the one that was there on the Ground Floor whenever you all blow up. It's only a matter of time.
Kaj:That's when the value of those set lists on your wall are gonna you're gonna be happy you kept those.
Shelby:I'll be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable that you mentioned I even have them. Because at some point they're gonna be so collectible that might
Kaj:Well, don't know. This may be what really ultimately people will be talking about. It'll give them the value. Know. Really don't know.
Shelby:Alright. You ready for your
Kaj:don't know how to follow that.
Shelby:Your yes please? You got a minute to talk about what you're passionate about and I'll give you a countdown.
Kaj:Okay.
Shelby:Ready? This is Kaj Johnson's yes please.
Kaj:Okay. I'll be honest with you. Now I'm a little torn. I was going to talk about my love for slow plotting British dramas. But after that, I just feel like I can't just do that.
Kaj:It's too bad we should have planned for the band to play right here, but this is kind of small. I don't think it would have worked. It'd be really cool if the band could actually be on the podcast somehow. I don't know. But it's too bad that we didn't plan that.
Kaj:But, you know
Shelby:Thirty seconds.
Kaj:As you were talking, it just reminded me. We have band practice that started at 11:30. What time is it?
Shelby:It's like 11:25.
Kaj:Yeah. We could run over, back over to the Geology Building. Do you want to do that? Could we record and just pop in on them and say, let's just do a song for the podcast? Yeah.
Kaj:Some of this is portable, right? That's a portable recording. We got some we could do that. What do you think? Shelby, we're gonna do it?
Shelby:We're gonna do it. That ended your minute. That was perfect timing. And I think, yeah.
Kaj:Let's go.
Shelby:We should wrap it up.
Kaj:Let's go. I'm ready.
Shelby:Go see what I think
Kaj:it'd be a great idea. Let's see what they think.
Shelby:See if we can get them on.
Kaj:Yeah. Okay.
Andrea:Well, hey, Shelby. Welcome.
Kaj:Hey. Oh, guys. I made it. Sorry. It was I didn't know if I'd be here, but how's practice going?
Kaj:Alright. You know what? Do you guys want to record a song
Andrea:for the Absolutely.
Kaj:Live cast? It's the season finale. Alright. Oh, so, by the way, everybody, let me introduce you to to the band members here. Shelby, you know everybody here.
Kaj:Right?
Shelby:Yeah. I know everybody, but I don't think our listeners
Kaj:Okay. Over here, we got Andrea Lynn on the mandolin. We got Mel on bass. Nice. Jake on guitar.
Kaj:Stuart on banjo. Andrea B on vocals. And Arya's doing backup. Let's do Cavalry. Alright, let's do it.
Shelby:Well, wraps up our show today. I wanna thank lots of folks. First, I wanna thank Kai for coming on, being our our season finale. So, Kaj, thank you for coming on. I wanna thank the band who has so graciously performed for us.
Shelby:Andrea Stevens Goddard on Mandolin, Arya Gotoh on vocals, Stuart Kenderes on banjo, Andrea Bridges on vocals, Jake Gearon on guitar, Mel Humbarger on bass, and of course, Kaj himself on guitar and the vocals. Great show. Glad you all would let us come and record that and have you on. I also wanna give a special thanks to Kyle Fulford from Folklore and Ethnomusicology who came in and helped with the technical aspects of the band recording. I've never been involved in something like that.
Shelby:Very
Kaj:Thank you, Kyle. That was really cool.
Shelby:Very impressive. He also mixed the band. I know he had to put in a lot of time and effort to really tune in, especially your vocals. Yeah.
Kaj:Yeah. That was
Shelby:And so we owe him a lot for that. Thank you, Kyle. Again, big thanks to Cari for coming on the show, you know, putting Kaj and I through the ringer with the ASBOG, Rock the ASBOG. I don't I don't know if I should thank her for that or not.
Cari:Welcome.
Shelby:And also for all of her work in editing this show. So she's been doing all of the editing for this podcast for every episode and is making myself and all of our guests sound good, which is no easy task. So thank you.
Kaj:Be working overtime on this one.
Shelby:She will be working overtime on
Cari:this one. Thank you for having me.
Shelby:And thanks to Betsy for all of your help throughout this whole process and for also joining us today. We really appreciate it. Thanks, folks, and hopefully, we'll see you next season.
Cari:Whoo. Yippee.
Betsy:Whoo hoo.
Kaj:That's a wrap.
Shelby:Earth on the Rocks is produced by Cari Metz with artwork provided by Connor Leimgruber, with technical recording managed by Kate Crum and Betsy Leija. Funding for this podcast was provided by the National Science Foundation grant, EAR Dash 2 4 2 2 8 2 4.
